Confronto Audi A1 tutto in famiglia.

[Fancar_]

la Mito non è certo un elevazione della Punto ... al punto che la seconda si lascia preferire di gran lunga per le doti dinamiche non distanti e con tutte le altre a favore.

Il gruppo Vag è furbo: entri nell'A1 e senti odore di Audi (c'è della componentistica mutuata dai segmenti superiori), entri nella Polo e senti un'altro odore.

Invece su Giulietta e MiTo trovi lo stesso odore che c'è sulla Punto o sulla 500.

 

[zero c.]

Edddddaje gallo...ma stai bene si? Fa caldo eh

fa caldo fa caldo,ma io non mi sono scaldato visto che si argomenta,volevo approfondire visto che per passione mi fa piacere...non vedo tutta questa abbondanza di roba nelle altre del segmento,tu le vedi? (anche se ben so che in jap non guardano a ste categorie da poverelli)

Tu quale compreresti delle tre citate sentiamo...

dubbio. in primis A1 ma dopo aver guidato una mini una volta,avessi "scimmia" di fare il kartista su strada la mini,consapevole che pago come per bmw ma dentro,aiuto.. in sintesi,dipenderebbe un po' ma l'a1 mi piace assai...e tu?

Ehm io non posso permettermi un'altra macchina 8)

E di quel segmento lì nessuna delle tre o quattro che citi peraltro. Una piccola ibrida credo. A benzina.

 

[gallongi]

Ehm io non posso permettermi un'altra macchina 8)

E di quel segmento lì nessuna delle tre o quattro che citi peraltro. Una piccola ibrida credo. A benzina.

dovessi dare via la 207 per un'A1 sarei un folle,25k ? per la moglie mobile,roba da pazzi...sono auto troppo costose e troppo piccole..ci compro 2 sw usate grandi che mi servono di piu'..e dove lo metto il lupo poi? hai visto la yaris hsd? 17500 non e' un prezzo malvagio per i contenuti che ha...

 

[gallongi]

la Mito non è certo un elevazione della Punto ... al punto che la seconda si lascia preferire di gran lunga per le doti dinamiche non distanti e con tutte le altre a favore.

Il gruppo Vag è furbo: entri nell'A1 e senti odore di Audi (c'è della componentistica mutuata dai segmenti superiori), entri nella Polo e senti un'altro odore.

Invece su Giulietta e MiTo trovi lo stesso odore che c'è sulla Punto o sulla 500.

gia' il punto e' questo..anche se la polo e' davvero una mini golf,il che e' sicuramente positivo

 

[zero c.]

Ehm io non posso permettermi un'altra macchina 8)

E di quel segmento lì nessuna delle tre o quattro che citi peraltro. Una piccola ibrida credo. A benzina.

dovessi dare via la 207 per un'A1 sarei un folle,25k ? per la moglie mobile,roba da pazzi...sono auto troppo costose e troppo piccole..ci compro 2 sw usate grandi che mi servono di piu'..e dove lo metto il lupo poi? hai visto la yaris hsd? 17500 non e' un prezzo malvagio per i contenuti che ha...

Eh te e io ci capiamo al volo. Un bianco di coronata pagato a gallo :!:

 

[BelliCapelli3]

Si, infatti alcune di quelle lavorazioni ce le ha anche la nuova Yaris ma quì il probelma è diverso!
Cortesemnte me le trovi sulle attuali Polo/Fabia/Ibiza, grazie!

Ma perchè, ti risulta che per Polo e I-zizza Vag abbia pubblicato veline per raccontarci come è composto il telaio? A me no.

Diciamo che hanno cambiato una ventina di bulloni e montato tre lamierini altoresistenziali del 2 sotto il tergilavalunotto, va.

Intanto rilevo che gli acciai altoresistenziali, essendo più "massicci" a parità di peso, si usano in due modi: per diminuire il materiale usato, e quindi il peso a parità di rigidezza telaio, oppure per usare la stessa quantità di materiale, lasciare invariato il peso, e godersi la rigidezza superiore.

Se si paragona il peso di una Polo a quello di una A1, si capisce che non hanno percorso la prima strada: pesano uguale, nonostante l'Audi sia più corta.

Qualcuno sa se la A1 possa vantare una rigidezza torsionale formidabilmente maggiore?

 

[zeusbimba]

Si, infatti alcune di quelle lavorazioni ce le ha anche la nuova Yaris ma quì il probelma è diverso!
Cortesemnte me le trovi sulle attuali Polo/Fabia/Ibiza, grazie!

Ma perchè, ti risulta che per Polo e I-zizza Vag abbia pubblicato veline per raccontarci come è composto il telaio? A me no.

Diciamo che hanno cambiato una ventina di bulloni e montato tre lamierini altoresistenziali del 2 sotto il tergilavalunotto, va.

Intanto rilevo che gli acciai altoresistenziali, essendo più "massicci" a parità di peso, si usano in due modi: per diminuire il materiale usato, e quindi il peso a parità di rigidezza telaio, oppure per usare la stessa quantità di materiale, lasciare invariato il peso, e godersi la rigidezza superiore.

Se si paragona il peso di una Polo a quello di una A1, si capisce che non hanno percorso la prima strada: pesano uguale, nonostante l'Audi sia più corta.

Qualcuno sa se la A1 possa vantare una rigidezza torsionale formidabilmente maggiore?

Ehehehee, il telaio dell'a1 è formidabilmente rigido... pare che lo staff audi abbia lavorato con la nasa nella segretissima area 51 per svilupparlo e differenziarlo dalla polo &C...

 

[zeusbimba]

No?? che motore l'ha vinto, il v12 della r 8 o il 2 litri di mamma vw??

Vinto! Vinto è un parolone! A vincerlo è stato il 999 cc di Ford.
Vag è un pò come il prezzemolo, c'è sempre nelle varie fasce. :lol:

• 3° sotto i 1000 cc. 1° tra i 1000-1400 cc. 2° tra i 1400-1800 cc.2° tra i 1800-2000 cc.1° tra i 2000-2500 cc.6° tra i 2500-3000 cc. che è praticamente dominio Bmw.4° tra i 3000-4000 cc.

Insomma, i ragazzi si stanno applicando! Poi se tolgono il primato motoristico a Bmw che altro vi rimane?

il piacere di guidare.....

 

[gringoxx]

potere del marketing e dei giornalisti che possono raccontarci fondamentalmente quel che gli pare

anche l'ibiza ha acciai alto resistenti secondo questi spagnoli

ed altre notizie ed articoli in spagnolo si trovano sul web

http://www.mapfre.com/documentacion/publico/i18n/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.cmd?path=1050945

http://www.forotecnologicoyempresarial.com/documentos/automocion_concepto/02_03_xavier_agustin.pdf

a proposito di sicurezza..se può interessare

http://upcommons.upc.edu/pfc/bitstream/2099.1/5578/1/PFC_Joaquim_Xiberta.pdf

 

[zeusbimba]

potere del marketing e dei giornalisti che possono raccontarci fondamentalmente quel che gli pare

anche l'ibiza ha acciai alto resistenti secondo questi spagnoli

ed altre notizie ed articoli in spagnolo si trovano sul web

http://www.mapfre.com/documentacion/publico/i18n/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.cmd?path=1050945

Ma infatti, tranne furetto l'abbiamo capito tutti....

 

[gallongi]

Eh te e io ci capiamo al volo. Un bianco di coronata pagato a gallo :!:

hai visto....

 

[FurettoS]

Caspita, vedo che vi siete dati da fare, fa piacere vedere girare tutta questa documentazione tecnica.

A completamento posto quello che meglio evidenzia le differenze della A1 (i quattro bulloni e le due lamierine) che portano il peso della cellula a 221 Kg e quel 11% di formati a caldo sparsi in vari punti.

Sostanzialmente sempre il discorso di quello che c'è sulla A1 e non c'è sulle altre.

Veramente lodevole il post di gringoxx.

Ps.
E' robba un pò da carrozzieri ed ovviamente in inglese.

This three-door model will establish itself in the small compact vehicle segment, setting new standards in design, manufacturing and strength.

The first view of this model reveals typical Audi features: large wheel arches, bonnet and rear hatchback opening pulled together in a streamlined design that uses full body length curved ridges to produce the characteristic ?ready for action? look.

The vehicle dimensions are 3,954 m length, 1 740 mm width and 1 417 mm height with a compact wheelbase measuring 2 469 mm.

Overhangs at the front and rear are short and help enhance handling: with relatively light, compact engines between 61-63% of the overall weight of the A1 rests over the front drive axle, giving a well-balanced load distribution for its compact car size. In total, the body of the Audi A1 has a weight (without exterior panels such as doors, bonnet and bootlid) of only 221 kg.

It is interesting in terms of model development over time, to compare the size of the new vehicle with that of its predecessors: the 2001 Audi A3 has almost identical dimensions to this sub-compact car ? it?s just longer than the new A1 by a mere 190 mm.

BODY STYLES

The first variant to be released is the three-door hatchback, followed by a five-door version. Notable body differences will be seen between the front and the rear roof sections; the five-door will have an additional roof cross member to give inbuilt strengthening directly across the roof from the B pillar.

BODY MATERIALS

The Audi A1 is manufactured with an all-steel body: it has great strength/weight ratio thanks to the clever design integrating a wide range of steels of differing strengths.

Thirty three percent of the bodywork is built from standard steel plate, used mainly in the outer panels. The proportion of high-strength sheet steel (tensile strength &gt 560 MPa) is 46% and we find this material in the front end, in the floor sections and in the rear tailgate. Modern high-strength sheet materials (tensile strength &gt 600 MPa0 are used as door hinge reinforcements in the A pillar, in the front roof frame and the B pillar. Ultra high strength sheet steel accounts for only 5% of body weight and is used for reinforcing the interior of the two side sill panels.

HOT FORMED SHEET STEEL

The highest strength materials are tempered steels with a tensile strength of &gt1400 MPa. For vehicle manufacture, these steel sheets are fired in the heating furnace at high temperatures and then quickly cooled. This temperature jump gives them the desired properties of very high tensile strength combined with low weight.

In the Audi A1 so-called hot-formed steels are used for 11% of the body ? in the passenger compartment, the rear side members, the roof panel and in the B pillar.

The B pillar also has the peculiarity that it is constructed from a mix of materials of different strengths so that the lower section, ie above sill panel, is formed from metal with ?softer? qualities, to allow for deformation during a side impact. In the upper areas at the height of the shoulder and head of the driver and front passenger, a hard structure that will resist deformation during impact is desired so the B-pillar here is reinforced with metal of very high strength. Any intruding crash forces are diverted away from the upper door area and internal passenger areas across the roof via the roof members.

The rear side members are also designed for manufacture from tailored blanks (2 sheets of steel welded together before they are formed into the panel shape giving extra strength because they are ?double thickness?). Repairers will need to check the VM instructions very carefully for this area, if repairs are required here.

The rear bumper will absorb crash energy by deforming during an impact.

At the front of the vehicle, Audi engineers have mounted a cross-bracing support from the two wheel arches, connecting them to the floor and the tunnel.

JOINING METHODS

The bodywork of the Audi A1 is almost exclusively joined by spot welding. In addition, about 66 of which are structural adhesive bonded, to give extra body strength and to create a seal between the sheet. This allows some other sealing measures to be eliminated, says the manufacturer.

Other joining techniques may be visible to the body shop technician on the body shell: laser welding can be found in the rear end and on the front side members. Laser soldering is used to connect the roof with the roof frame and during the build process for the two-part tailgate.

MIG brazing is clearly visible on the front MacPherson strut and the lower windscreen frame. Short MAG welding seams can be detected on both sides (inside and outside) of the hot-formed metal section forming the wall between the engine compartment and the front passenger and driver feet wells. A unique factory technique, ?plasmatron brazing? is used in the rear tailgate area. You can see where it?s been used if you look for yellow/gold seams.

NOISE AND VIBRATION IMPROVEMENTS

According to the manufacturer, the Audi A1 has a very good noise profile, with no disturbing vibrations. The developing engineers dedicated much attention to deadening sound and vibration through the use of stiffer materials around areas that generate noise and vibration. A lightweight sound deadening material is used within the vehicle interior to ensure quietness. These special accoustic deadening pads are placed inside the door sections and within the base of the B-pillar, for instance. They fit snugly because the material foams up when heated and this is effective in deadening metal vibrations.

CRASH RATING

The Audi A1 has received good reviews in various crash tests including the new AZT Bumper Crash test. The Euro NCAP consortium tested passive crash safety and awarded the A1 the top score of five stars. The results for adult protection in a frontal, rear or side collision, as well as for child safety and pedestrian protection, place the new Audi A1 among the safest vehicles in its category.

REPAIRABILITY

The front bumper has been designed as a modular item,: ie separate units that screw together so in the event of a slight frontal crash only the damaged part of the entire bumper unit needs to be replaced. This helps minimise repair costs.

SUMMARY

The new Audi A1 is designed and built in a wider mix of special new steels used together in an innovative way to focus maximum passenger protection in the vulnerable crash areas. The development of cutting edge steel types and manufacturing techniques has allowed this innovative use of materials in combination for added strength where it?s needed.

Repairers need to look carefully at the manufacturer?s data when dealing with the small but very strong A1.

Attached files /attachments/1345117=14214-audi a1 pic.jpg

 

[FurettoS]

Chiaramente c'è anche l'ottima cugina da cui chiaramente non hanno tolto tecnologia costruttiva ma ne hanno ovviamnete aggiunta.

APPEARANCE

This small car from VW has been produced for 35 years and has so far sold 10,6 million units across the various generations to 2009. In 2009 4 200 Polos were sold, in 2010 from January to May a total of 23 000 Polos found new owners.

The ?Polo 5? was initially only manufactured as a four-door version. Compared to the previous generation the new Polo has gained 54 mm in length and 32 mm in width. The height of the car has been reduced by 14 mm. This is to make the car appear more dynamic and sporty, says VW, yet by extending the track width at the front and the back, the space available in the interior has been increased.

INHERINT BODY STRENGTH

The inherent strength of the body is a technical characteristic important with regard to the subjective perception of parameters such as safety, quality, and riding comfort. Achieving 18 000 Nm/º for static torsional strength of the body, the new Polo achieves excellent values, according to the manufacturer. This higher strength new Polo is achieved using high strength and extra high strength steel panels and through a new load-bearing design with reinforcement of crucial body points.

This becomes apparent in the rear body, which is built with particularly rigid node components. An integral monocoque construction reaches quite far into the support area surrounding the tailgate hinges, and is further reinforced using bonded joints. This construction method optimises the effectiveness of the built-in strong points (nodes) and achieves a homogeneous distribution of strength in the upper part of the body.

In the new Polo the high strength was not achieved at the expense of body weight. On the contrary: the lightweight quality of this body has an excellent value of 3.6 (the lower this absolute value, the more efficient the weight and strength of a body structure). The new Polo is characterised by an innovative lightweight construction that managed, in spite of increased safety requirements, to be 7.5% lighter than the Polo 4. Body weight without add-on components (wings, doors and glass) is only 231 kilogrammess; with add-on components it is 305 kgs.

Total body weight has been lowered by reducing the body panel thicknesses: rear end panel and rear side panel (0.75mm) roof and bonnet (0.65 mm), and the door leafs and wings have a panel thickness of 0.65mm. This results in a total weight saving of 3.3 kilogrammess.

INTERNAL VALUES

A high dynamic strength is an important feature for the driver ? helping to achieve ride comfort and balanced vehicle acoustics, under conditions that induce vibration. In the new Polo it is the combination of an optimally designed body structure, a clever material mix and innovative welding and bonding methods that results in top values of 43 Hz for the so-called inherent torsion frequency and 46 hz for the inherent bending frequency. In addition, high local strength values contribute to good sound insulation and thus a low interior noise level in all relevant parts of the passenger cabin.

CRASH BEHAVIOUR

The new Polo was developed with the The new Polo was developed with the aim of gaining five stars in the new and stricter EuroNCAP evaluation. The high structural strength of the body contributes to this: in the area of the footwell the intrusion (deformation strength during a frontal collision) is potentially reduced by 50%. In a lateral collision the intrusion value has been improved by 20%. Here are some details:

FRONTAL COLLISION

In a frontal collision the highly rigid passenger cell offers certain survival space for the driver and passengers. At the front an extremely rigid bumper cross beam (in excess of 1 000 Mpa) also makes sure that, for one-sided loads, crash energy is transferred to both longitudinal beam areas and energy can therefore be absorbed evenly. By optimising the longitudinal beams the progressive delay in a frontal collision achieves significantly reduced stress on the occupants.

In addition the lower cross beam in the footwell is designed as a dimensionally hardened component (in excess of 1 000 Mpa), thus halving the weight on the one hand and achieving a very high strength on the other. Intrusions into the footwell, i.e. the biomechanical stress on the feet and lower legs, could thus be reduced by approx 50% compared to the previous model.

The lateral area of the body is designed as a ring structure and, together with the doors, provides additional dimensional stability. In the so-called load paths ? the A pillar, the upper door frame resting on the B pillar, the roof frame and the sill panel ? extra high strength metal reinforcements are used. The roof frame above the A pillar and the B pillar contain hot-forged interior components with a strength in excess of 1 000 Mpa.

LATERAL COLLISION

The VW development team paid particular attention to effective lateral protection in the Polo. If the Polo body hits an obstacle sideways, the crash energy is absorbed by the specially hardened B pillar and the impact beams arranged diagonally above the doors. The reinforced seat crossbeams and sill panels reduce the speed of the obstacle entry as well as the intrusion itself by up to 20% during a lateral impact.

During the so-called ?pole collision? a lateral crash test ? the hot-forged roof frame and the rigid sill panel offer an improved safety level. Compared to the previous model intrusion could be reduced by 15% in this scenario.

PEDESTRIAN PROTECTION

In addition to the protection of passengers, the safety of pedestrians has also been considered. The current regulations on pedestrian protection were met by creating the largest possible deformation space in the bonnet, by improving the design of the interior panel.

This is intended to prevent penetrating impacts onto the hard areas of the engine block. the hinges of the bonnet were also optimised with regard to pedestrian protection. The wings are mounted on separate deformation elements (small metal bridges) which can easily deform during a collision.

FAMILIAR FLOOR ASSEMBLY

In addition to the protection of passengers, the safety of pedestrians has also been considered. The current regulations on pedestrian protection were met by creating the largest possible deformation space in the bonnet, by improving the design of the interior panel.

This is intended to prevent penetrating impacts onto the hard areas of the engine block. The hinges of the bonnet were also optimised with regard to pedestrian protection. The wings are mounted on separate deformation elements (small metal bridges) that can easily deform during a collision.

JOINING TECHNOLOGY

The number of different joining technologies has been reduced in the new Polo: spot welding dominates with a share of 62% and laser welding is no longer used.

The small laser quilting seams that could be found at the doors and the door entries of the predecessor have been replaced by spot welding points, making the laser seam miller redundant!

Other joining methods are bonding (11%) MAG welding, MIG soldering, laser soldering and roll hemming with 2-3% each, and some joints use bolts, clinching or riveting. Laser soldering continues to be used, as in the current VW Golf, at the left and right roof edge to attach the roof skin to the body structure.

OUTLOOK

The VW Polo is the company?s mass vehicle for global markets and is likely to match the sales success of its predecessor. If the small car sells well, it is likely to make regular appearances in repair workshops too. Are there any important changes for the body repairer?

Yes, the abandoning of laser welding seams is certainly an advantage during repairs, but this is countered by the use of additional bonded material.

Another aspect results from the design and the material thicknesses: deformation in ?invisible areas?. The excellent values for static and dynamic strength mean that the body structure has been designed to be very stable. The cross strut in the front floor assembly should be noted, as should the B Pillar and roof strut reinforcement made from hot forged steel panels.

And don?t forget the panel thicknesses of the outer skin components, which have been reduced further.

In summary I conclude that the design freedom and the deformability of the outer skin have increased while the inner body structure is designed to absorb the entire crash energy and forces introduced. The Polo thus points the way to the future body structure: ?Soft skin and hard core.?

Attached files /attachments/1345120=14215-vw repair technology a.jpg

 

[BelliCapelli3]

,

 

[G5]

Uffff .... mi ci vorrà la prossima settimana per studiare quelle carte ....... mi piacerebbe però capire, discorsi markettari a parte, in cosa consistono queste aggiunte e sottrazioni ........ se avrò tempo cercherò di studiare ....